DEAN DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENTShlomoh Sherman
November 8, 2003
In my opinion, Dean does not deserve to be president.
Why? Because like most of the Democratic would be candidates and most of the Republican politicians, he is not an honest man. Dean said that people who have the confederate flag on their cars also should be courted as voters. What did he do next? When challenged by by the arch negro liar, Sharpton, he backed down and apologized. This was not necessary. He showed himself to be less than a man. What would I have done in his place? I would have thrown the challenge back in that colored man's face and demanded that he apologize to the Police Dept of New York City for lying and slander about Towanna Brawley (or however that made up name is spelt).
Sharpton, charlaton, is in no position to say anything to anyone. He's a joke, and a dangerous one.
The flag of the Confederacy can be INTERPRETED to be a racist symbol, but in and of itself, it is not. The flag of the Confederacy is a symbol of an ATTEMPT by a section of the country to establish it's own IDEAS about the sovereignty of states. The truth of the matter is that most scholars of the period believe that had the Confederacy won the war, they would have shortly abolished slavery anyway once they entered the modern world of the 20th century.
The Confederate flag has been used by INDIVIDUALS as a symbol of white superiority. It is a holdover of some southerners' anger about the defeat of their goals.
People who equate the Confederate flag with the Swastika are doing a long stretch. The Swastika is a symbol of death and destruction and world wide conquest. The Confederacy had no desire to conquer the world or to kill people in concentration camps just because they belonged to a particular race.
Dean should be ashamed of himself for his cowardice. If ever I would have voted for him, now I will not. Once again, the Democrats have shown that they have no viable candidates. Neither have the Republicans. I'll have to wait until Giuliani runs before I vote in a presidential election. Maybe the law will even be changed to allow the upcoming governor of California to run.
From: "Marlyn Bumpus"
To: "King Solomon"
Subject: Re: DEAN DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENT
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:33:53 -0800
> The flag of the Confederacy can be INTERPRETED to be a
> racist symbol, but in and of itself, it is not.
> People who equate the Confederate flag with the
> Swastika are doing a long stretch.
> The Swastika is a symbol of death and destruction and
> world wide conquest.
Respectful but very vehement disagreement.
The Swastika has thousands of years of history of peaceful spiritual meaning among a number of civilizations around the globe and was co-opted in only the last 100 years by a a group of men as a symbol under which they attempted death and destruction. The Stars & Bars was the symbol of a nascent nation separating itself from the rest over a conflict of States' Rights which has in the last 100 years been co-opted by a group of men as a symbol under which racial prejudice and discrimination have been taken to violent extremes.
If you can erase the horrific things that were done first in the name of slavery and later in the name of racial prejudice then you must be capable of erasing the horrific things that were done in the name of the Aryan race.
Frankly, even though I am Buddhist and technically the swastika is the official symbol of my religion in the lands of its birth, I find it hard to separate it from the acts that were done under its auspices by the Third Reich. In the same manner, I find it similarly difficult to separate the Stars & Bars from the acts of discrimination and destruction that have been committed under its auspices by people dedicated to the causes of racial prejudice.
The relative body count of the two co-opting groups is moot. Both symbols began meaning one thing and have since come to be identified with groups whose purposes are not benevolent in the least. If you can separate one from the group who co-opted it, then there should be no problem separating the other from the group that co-opted it as well.
With all due respect, anything else is hypocrisy.
To: "Marlyn Bumpus"
From: "King Solomon"
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 11:50:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [new46] Re: DEAN DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENT
Unashamedly I must admit that yours is the best rebuttal I have gotten so far. AND or BUT - I CAN separate the Mazi swaistika from the Far Eastern one because they don't look the same. They face in opposite directions. But the Nazis always turned things around. Mussolini got his left arm salute from the ancieant Romans. The Nazis took it and substituted the right arm in the salute. Even symbolically I separate the original swastika from its use in Germany. Many people cannot. The same cannot separate the Confederate flag from its use by some people in this century. That is not even the major issue here. The issue is DEAN and his hypocrisy. It is his refusal to stand up to opportunistic blacks like Sharpton that is the issue. It is his inability to say "I am interested in getting as many votes as I can including the type of people who carry the Confederate flag in their cars, and believe me, I am sure that those same people would not like me for who I am. But I don't care if they like me or not. I might not like them. But I like the Sharptons of the world less.
Marlyn, many people are down on me just because I am in the middle, neither left nor right, but simpatico with the best that each has to offer. The man had the right to say that he is courting as many people as possible, EVEN the Confederate flag wavers. It is his right as an American. I know that if I were running for president I would not win because I would say what I think. I would say that I don't believe in the Christian god and if elected will do everything possible to separate God from the Consitution. It's my right as an American to say that. And it's the right of the people to not vote for me. At the same time, as president, I would grant full rights for people to wave the Confederate flag or the Nazi flag. I would also state that this country IS fighting a crusade againts Islam because I don't think a president sould lie like Bush does and like Dean would.
Frankly we need Ed Koch or Rudy Giuliani for president.
This country is too goddam politically correct for its own good. That's all. But thanx for your input.
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 14:52:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Dan Kliman"
Subject: Re: DEAN DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE PRESIDENT
To: "King Solomon"
--- King Solomon
> The flag of the Confederacy can be INTERPRETED to be
> a racist symbol, but in and of itself, it is not.
Every symbol in and of itself can be interpreted in any way. Just look at all those loons who intepret the Star of David as a hate symbol.
The fact is, the Stars and Bars were but one of the symbols of the Confederacy, and it was the flag of the KKK. You don't get much more racist than that.
I lived in a Confederate state for 3 years, and the racism was palpable. When you saw a Confederate Flag, you knew what it meant and you understood the motivations behind the people flying it. If it were just a neutral flag of rebellion, then why are black people not welcome in bars that fly the flag? Why don't you see black southerners flying the flag or putting it on their cars.
Quite simply, it is a racist symbol and one whose meaning can not be whitewashed so easily.
In a similar vein, kids in England started wearing swastikas as a symbol of their allegiance to punk rock. They had no racist intent and were wearing the symbol as an anti-establishment/anti-patriotic move for shock value. Despite their motivations, one could not distance the racist meaning of the swastika from the symbol, despite its centuries of use as a non-racist symbol. In roughly one year, the punks abandoned the swastika to the racists who appropriated it and its racist symbolism with great relish.
> It is a holdover of some southerners' anger about
> the defeat of their goals.
The goal was preservation of their "peculiar institution" of slavery -- a practice that had been abandoned in the entirety of the civilized world by the early 19th Century, except the USA.
Dean has every right to court the Confederate flag flying voter, and Sharpton has every right to criticize him for it. I am still undecided about my choice for candidate in the Democratic primary, and as a Californian, my vote matters little as we have a late primary, but I doubt if Dean will get my vote, and certainly Sharpton will not.
"What is anti-Zionism? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism." --
Martin Luther King Jr.
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