Passion Plays I Have SeenCorrespondence Between Shlomoh's Friends |
From: Grace Harris
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.When I was four, my church acted out the passion of Christ, from the last supper to the resurrection. I'm probably the only one here who has seen a crucifixion. It didn't arouse any antisemitic feelings in me. It didn't lead to an acts of anti-semitism by anyone present. If anything, it fit with the contemporary Christian identification of OURSELVES with those who killed Christ.
The whole thing was thought up and scripted by a brilliant teenager at our church named Jim Pamplin (whom I'm still friends with). It was supposed to be done by the youth group, but basically at the last minute they needed help so adults pitched in also. :)
My momma woke me up early Easter morning and it was still dark and I was still sleepy, but there was excitement in the air. She drove me and my two-year old brother to the church, and helped us wrap our love-blankets around our heads and shoulders to help keep warm. I'll always remember her looking at me and saying, "Now you look just like Mary!" I was an imaginative child. No one else knew it but me, but at that moment, I took on a part too.
What they lacked in staging and props was easily made up for by imagination in the dark and middle of the night run away imaginations. I remember my dad was Herod. And the pastor became Pontius Pilate. And my family and friends were transformed into an irrational angry mob. Jim Pamplin was Jesus. (Hey, he wrote the script! :) ) I remember my own brother nailing him onto the cross. My mother could see me getting upset, and kept repeating over and over that it was just catchup and that this was pretend. I remember noticing him struggling to breath when he would hang. I remember the taunting, the gambling Romans... And I was Mary, my heart being pierced by a sword as I stood there looking up.
Part of me knew that this was all pretend, of course. But I was also there in a way that I have never been able to return since.
And of course, he arose just as dawn was breaking. :)
This is why we need Passion Plays. Not just on the screen, but in our church parking lots.
From: Deke Barker
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.Grace:
What did you learn from the Passion Play? What did anyone else learn?
Jim's (Scott's?) comment notwithstanding, nobody is suggesting that Gibson's "PASSION" is going to generate a pogram here in the U.S. or anywhere else. The fact that people did not walk away from your play carrying clubs and hunting random Jews is meaningless.Again, what did people learn from the Passion Play? Did the Passion Play accurately represent the best judgment of Jewish, Xian, and secular experts on 1st century Palestine? Did it, in a way understood by all in the audience, distinguish between the Jewish *PEOPLE* and the handful of Jewish leaders who may have instigated or otherwise been involved in Jesus' trial? Did it discard statements and actions by Jesus, his disciples, and others that were probably the invention of the evangelists during a period of near-violent conflict between Xian Jews and traditional Jews? Did it alter any other NT statements to reflect their underlying meanings instead of their literal (and often misleading) meanings? Was it sympathetic to the reality that Passion Plays have often been catalysts for anti-Semitic beliefs and actions? Did it adjust its presentation accordingly?
All of these things can be done without subtracting one whit from a Passion Play.
But to actually *DO* them is, as far as I am aware, about as rare as a sighting of a duckbilled platypus.
From: Grace Harris
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.Deke: There are different kinds of understanding. I can learn about the crucifixion from reading books, and its all in my head, and it means nothing. By participating in Jim Pamplin's Passion Play, it became real. It became meaningful. I understood it in a way that was more than head knowledge. It's the difference between booklearning and experience. And that, my friend, is a precious thing.
From: Deke Barker
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.Grace:
But that's my point. *SOME* of what is learned through the *TYPICAL* Passion play is anti-Semitism, that "the Jews" were responsible, that Jesus' "blood" is on their hands forever.
Perhaps your Passion play was different from any that I've seen or heard about. I don't know. I wasn't there.
I'm not knocking Passion plays in principle. However, I regard them much as I do capital punishment: Good theory, lousy execution. *OF COURSE* a Passion play is more likely than books to excite the spiritual. And that's fine, so long as in the process it isn't also a catalyst for religious hatred. But Passion plays tend to present a simplistic and often-erroneous picture, a picture which almost invariably does disservice to history ... and to Jews.
From: Grace Harris
Date: Thu, Mar 4 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.But Deke!
Antisemitism was exactly what I did NOT learn. It was not Jews who shouted "Crucify him' but my family and friends. It was the pastor who washed his hands. My father who sent him away. My brother who nailed the nails in his hands. It taught me, as it should, that human beings killed Christ.
From: Deke Barker
Date: Friday, March 05, 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.Grace:
You're missing the point. I don't think Shlomoh is at all concerned about the effect that seeing "Passion" may have on you, or on Jim, or on Scott, or on anyone else on this forum. *I* am certainly not concerned. For all of my sometimes-harsh attacks on Jim's and Scott's beliefs and perceptions, I know them to be good, thoughtful people ... at least most of the time. (Okay, just when they're sleeping ... but that's beside the point. [G])
But there are a lot of other people out there who are not quite as thoughtful as you are. We can allow Dani to watch certain R-rated films, but there are few of her friends that we would even consider allowing to watch them with us, even if their parents said okay. They just don't have the level of judgment, much less the understanding of context (which Darcy and I provide in running commentaries), necessary to properly comprehend the films.
The same is true for a lot of people who will see "Passion"
From: Grace Harris
Date: Friday, March 05, 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.That argument is no different than the one saying we should remove all alcohol because of the effect it has on some people who then go out and harm others.
From: Deke Barker
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 5, 2004
Subject: Passion Plays I have seen.Grace:
I don't get your point. Nobody is suggesting that Gibson's film should be banned, least of all me. I would be opposed to banning it if it were *BLATANTLY* anti-Semitic.
The question is whether or not Gibson could have made the same film, with the same (alleged) intent and with the same (alleged) effect, without distortions of history that are likely to promote anti-Semitism.
If the answer is yes (which it obviously is), then the question is, why did he do it this way?
It bothers me that Gibson included the "let his blood be on us" (or whatever) passage in the original cut. (It's still there, just not in subtitles in American theaters.) Gibson's refusal to criticize his father's extreme bigotry bothers me. The way Gibson promoted his film bothers me. I'm bothered by the fact that *ALL* of Gibson's sources either were anti-Semitic or (in the case of the NT) could easily be interpreted in anti-Semitic fashion. It troubles me that Gibson belongs to a branch of Catholicism wh ere anti-Semitism is not uncommon.
Since everyone seems to agree, I am assuming that the descriptions I've read -- raw descriptions, not interpretations -- are accurate. Those descriptions suggest that Gibson adhered to a 19th century Catholic understanding of the gospel stories. That understanding is very different from the broad consensus that exists among contemporary non-fundamentalist Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Jewish scholars. This also troubles me.
Based on those descriptions and the above considerations, it is becoming difficult not to conclude that Gibson *INTENDED* his film to be anti-Semitic. Not blatantly anti-Semitic, but subtly anti-Semitic. (How blatant it could become will be learned when the DVD is released, especially overseas.)
From: Grace Harris
Date: Tue, Mar 9 2004
Subject: Passion plays I have seenDeke:
I thought you knew [the movie] was banned in Israel. And from the way you and Shlomoh talked, it sounded like you were saying the movie would be better to have never been made.
From: "King Solomon" [kingsolnew@yahoo.com]
Date: Tue, Mar 9 2004
Subject: Passion plays I have seenI never weighed in on that either way. The movie HAS been made so we have to deal with what is.
I have no problem with Biblical movies except most of them are so stupid - especially the ones from the mid 20th century.
The latest TV movie, JUDAS, is so amateurish, in my opinion.
I never said that The PASSION shouldn't have been made. It's not for me to say.
I even went to see it.
I am an advocate of freedom of expression.
xxxxxx got a bootleg copy from her husband who got it from who knows where and they let their ten year old son watch it. And xxxxxx says it's not all that violent. I really got pissed at that, like she had to justify letting the kid watch it.
From: Deke Barker
Date: Tue, Mar 9 2004
Subject: Passion plays I have seenGrace:
I think it WOULD be better that "Passion" had never been made, or at least that it had been made differently. And I think it would be better that "Mein Kampf" had never been written. So what? I feel the same way about 90% of the music I hear on radio and about 98% of the garbage I see on TV.
Still, I would never tolerate either "Passion" or "Mein Kampf" being banned, at least not in the U.S.
Grace, I'm a civil libertarian. More to the point, I'm a First Amendment fanatic. I believe with all my heart in the freedom of expression, the freedom to practice one's religion, and the strict separation of church and state. Given those facts, how could I possibly agree to suppress "Passion" or any other form of expression that didn't present a clear and present danger to the public (as in yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, to quote Potter Stewart, I think).
If Israel did ban "Passion", IMO it was wrong. The only purpose was ideological, religious, and/or political. Banning it had no *FUNCTIONAL* purpose, not in Israel.
I even have trouble with Germany's and France's restrictions on anti-Semitic speech, Holocaust denial, etc., although I can see how they may be *TEMPORARILY* necessary in those states because of their histories.
From: Jim Massey
Date: Wed, Mar 10, 2004
Subject: Passion plays I have seenTo put "Passion" and "Mein Kampf" in the same sentence is an insult that one would expect from moveon.org, not you.
Grace Harris converted to Roman Catholicism from Holiness Religion over 20 years ago.
Deke Barker is a member of the church of The Disciples Of Christ.
Jim Massey is a Lutheran
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